PakMediNet Discussion Forum : Medical Research in Pakistan : A matter of Shame - No Spine Surgeon in Pakistan
A matter of Shame - No Spine Surgeon in Pakistan
I read in the News Paper "Khabrain" that 100 Pakistani patients will be sent to UAE and Iran for treating their Spine Fractures. Isn't it a matter of Shame that in a counties of 160 Million we donot have a REAL SPINE SURGEON. It is so disappointing that we have to send our patients like these to other countries not for complicated Surgeries but for Fixing spine fractures. The politics in the institutions is so high and facilities so low that it is impossible to anything there. Where are we going , self proclaimed professors are the Jahalat Ka Pahar and nothing else.
Is it possible to have at least one Govt. Run Institution in Pakistan where we could have state of Art treatment for all disease and disorders and atleast we can train our own doctors.
Extremely disappointed
Ijaz
[Edited by ijazali on 16-11-2005 at 01:32 PM GMT]
Posted by: ijazaliPosts: 151 :: 16-11-2005 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: A matter of Shame - No Spine Surgeon in Pakistan
There certainly are good spine surgeons in Pakistan. I know an excellent on in Karachi in Ziauddin.
People in the government hospitals, on academic posts are moslty useless people. A lot of them have never produced anything in the name of research but they are PROFESSORS. Any other country and such white elephants would not be working at least in academic institutions.
Yes the whole setup of medical education and medical care is a sham and shameful. Despite such pathetic system, we are proud to have young people with such sense of uty as thet have shown at this time of disaster.
Posted by: oncomanPosts: 23 :: 16-11-2005 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: Re: A matter of Shame - No Spine Surgeon in Pakistan
What is the use of Such EXCELLENT SPINE SURGEON when we have to send patients to Iran and UAE.The ppl u r talking abt do very limted surgery and not complex cases. I certainly believe that we have currently have no hope of getting any real good trained Doctors in our country as there is no infrastructure and the working conditions , cost of care and non interest on part of the Govt are big turn offs for any good surgeon or physician.
Still Disappointed
Ijaz
[Edited by ijazali on 17-11-2005 at 01:38 AM GMT]
[Edited by ijazali on 17-11-2005 at 01:41 PM GMT]
Posted by: ijazaliPosts: 151 :: 17-11-2005 :: | Reply to this Message
No Spine Surgeon in Pakistan
Sorry that you are not aware that there are very competent Spinal surgeons in our country. I am a Neurospinal surgeon working at Liquat National Hospital and Ntional Medical centre Karachi for last 7 years.
The reasons for not transfering patients with spinal injury to Karachi had nothing to do with expertise!!! Our team was their from 3rd day of erathquake and I personally was with the team from 3rd to 10th day of the disaster in Abottabad.
We Masha Allah perform over 700 spinal operations at Liaquat National hospital every year!!!
Plz verify details before putting them on th net.
Regards
Dr Salman Sharif
FRCS(SN) England
Posted by: braindocPosts: 2 :: 21-11-2005 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: No Spine Surgeon in Pakistan
Hi,
I am really happy to find that there is hope. Infact there is one problem that ppl who look superficially donot understand. Most neurosurgeons call them Spine surgeons as well. Spine surgery is more than just laminectomies and discectomies. It goes from OC stabilizations to Sacrectomies,Odontoid fracture fixations to transarticular screws to Scoliosis, Pedicule screw fixation to correction of deformities. etc. Nobody should be doing such highly specialised surgeries without doing specific subspeciality Fellowship training in that field and by Fellowship training i donot mean just FRCS or FCPS .It has to be a dedicated subspeciality after that for atleast 2 years or so.
The problem in Pakistan is that we are happy with making a living and not interested in making a name for our country and ourselves.
ijaz
[Edited by ijazali on 21-11-2005 at 04:28 PM GMT]
[Edited by ijazali on 21-11-2005 at 04:30 PM GMT]
[Edited by ijazali on 22-11-2005 at 02:14 AM GMT]
Posted by: ijazaliPosts: 151 :: 21-11-2005 :: | Reply to this Message
No Spinal Surgeon in Pakistan
DEAR DR IJAZ
NO NEED TO CURSE OUR NATION.WE DO HAVE GOOD AND PROPERLY TRAINED AND QUALIFIED SPINAL SURGEONS(ALTHOUGH THEY ARE FEW)IN PAKISTAN
WE ALSO SENT OUR PATIENTS TO UAE FROM ARMED FORCES INSTITUTE OF REHABILITATION MEDICINE(AFIRM) RWP NOT BECAUSE OF LACK OF SURGEONS BUT BECAUSE OF TIME FACTOR. WE HAD ONLY ONE SPINAL SURGEON AT OUR HANDS LT.COL. ASAD QURESHI AND HE COULD NOT POSSIBLY OPERATE ON 140 PATIENTS OF SCI WE RECIEVED IN THIS ERATH QUAKE
Posted by: drrathorePosts: 428 :: 06-03-2006 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: A matter of Shame - No Spine Surgeon in Pakistan
Hi,
The situation is not as bad my friend as the news papers sometimes depict. I know a very good spinal surgeon who is UK qualified. and is currently working in Combined Military hospital rawalpindi.
Take care
Posted by: amjadbhattPosts: 2 :: 30-03-2006 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: A matter of Shame - No Spine Surgeon in PakistanI know one here in USA who was not treated treated well in Pakistan, and had to come back. Situation is not too bad, we are doing pretty good.
Posted by: cocaloPosts: 11 :: 30-03-2006 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: Re: A matter of Shame - No Spine Surgeon in Pakistan
one thing i want to address through this forum is the fact that most UK so called qualified people are those guys who have done FRCS in surgery in General. The number of people who are FRCS in a speciality like urology, neurosurgery , cardiac surgery are very few in pakistan.
so what most people do is go to england work as a SHO for 6 month posts in different specialities and hardly get any real hands on surgical experience and than appear for the non-speciality FRCS exam and than keep on working on these Scut work jobs, most never make it to the numbered (real training seats) so as a result they become like clarks and later on when they come back to pakistan they write proudly in front of their names as FRCS and start practice in some specilaity and thats the reason of pathetic level of competence of surgeons in Pakistan and the ever worse training levels here. We should not try to wipe our dirt under the carpet, lets face it and improve it.
So pls differentiate between the few real trained guys who have Specilaity FRCS like FRCS Surgical neurology from some body who had done FRCS in surgery in general and worked as SHO in neurosurgery or registrar in NS for one year and than came back and declared them as Neurosurgeon and write against there names as FRCS and ppl here in our country are just in love with the name of FRCS so they think he must be a learned man.
CALL A SPADE A SPADE.
ijaz
[Edited by ijazali on 31-03-2006 at 05:52 AM GMT]
[Edited by ijazali on 31-03-2006 at 09:11 AM GMT]
Posted by: ijazaliPosts: 151 :: 31-03-2006 :: | Reply to this Message
A matter of Shame - No Spine Surgeon in Pakistan
DEAR DR IJAZ
YOUR COMMENTS ARE REGARDING THE STATUS OF THESE SUPER SPECIALIST TYPE FRCS ARE VERY TRUE....BUT THEN THIS IS THE BEST OPTION AVAILABLE TO US SO FAR AND SOME OF THEM TURN OUT TO BE REALLY GOOD....ANY WAY WE NEED TO IMPROVE OUR STANDARDS
Posted by: drrathorePosts: 428 :: 03-04-2006 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: A matter of Shame - No Spine Surgeon in Pakistan
yes we more than desperately need to improve our standards. though there is some improvement because of people now thinking about FCPS exams so they try to study things. though the most important thing is training surprisingly the western training system relies mostly almost 80-85% on training and 10-15% on candidates reading. but in our system its the poor candidates who are reading reading and reading cos they have gotten no training from the incomptent and non knowledgeable supervisor (because who was not trained himself too) so the vicious circle continues.
I will also like to clarify this misconception here that ppl think that registrars / residents are not well trained because the supervisors are busy in their private practice actually the supervisors are poorly trained or untrained and even if they donot have a busy private practice they still are not able to help trainees.
A lot of responsibilty lies with the Ex-pats who are in north america because they can create some training opportunities for trainess at there institution especially ppl who have done FCPS to create advanced training or fellowship opportunities so that these ppl can go back and serve there own ppl.
ijaz
[Edited by ijazali on 04-04-2006 at 03:27 AM GMT]
Posted by: ijazaliPosts: 151 :: 04-04-2006 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: A matter of Shame - No Spine Surgeon in Pakistan
well all i could say that i personally know atleast 7 surgoens only in the city of karachi. so please verify your self created facts before advertising them on the net.... you must be some very un focused and out of date dr... i am sorry also regarding the fact that instead of creating a positive image of our country you are portraying a negative image.
[Edited by docosama on 09-06-2006 at 05:15 PM GMT]
Posted by: drbadshahPosts: 3 :: 09-06-2006 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: Re: A matter of Shame - No Spine Surgeon in Pakistan
Donot try to hide the dust under the carpet. Try to face the facts.
Pppl who are not related to field call everybody who does discectomies and laminectomies as spine surgeon.Like every body who joggs in bag-e-jinnah for 15 minutes after every second month cannnot necessarily be marathon runners.
I will be happy to hear who are the guys in Karachi that you are calling as spine surgeons, let me know.
One should not be ashamed of knowing ones discrepancy cos otherwise this cockiness leads to the path which is known as self denial and than you loose the chance of self improvement.
ijaz
[Edited by ijazali on 10-06-2006 at 05:51 PM GMT]
Posted by: ijazaliPosts: 151 :: 10-06-2006 :: | Reply to this Message
Re: Re: Re: A matter of Shame - No Spine Surgeon in Pakistanif this is the matter then none is expert in any field in Pakistan.can you claim to be expert in your field?
Posted by: BVHOSPITALPosts: 131 :: 03-04-2009 :: | Reply to this Message